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102094-carbine-youd-have-alot-more-people-still-playing-if-page-2
Page 1, Page 2 Content If you don't have 300 Partial Primal Patterns by the time you're ready to do the 40 man then you're not ready to do the 40 man. My guild has cleared 3 bosses in GA and I'm sitting at ~275 patterns right now. | |} ---- it's not about what I expected If I see my server getting depopulated and my 3rd guild having the same issue (members becoming inactive) I don't really care about the reason for it - I know I'm getting bored and I can't do stuff I want to do. imo it's too late to just fix the cause - now they have to keep people interested at all cost to prevent them from further leaving or the game will just depopulate and at that point fixing stuff wont do *cupcake* | |} ---- we are the vocal minority ? so the arround 60%+ people that allready left judging by the ammount of peeps online in the game and dissapearing guilds and all the servers on LoW is a MINORITY ? WUT ? compared to the entire playerbase playing ? you mean that few that i see ? and even them dissapearing ? Larger paying side ? you wanted to say the smaller paying side right ? and the Majority threatening side ? yeah i think this is what you wanted to say. the MAJORITY of people Voiced their opinion on whats bad with their wallet allready and we are that stayed STILL voicing our opinion but NOTHING is happening..... them whiteknights............. | |} ---- ---- The vocal playerbase will always be the minority. Those who truly love the game rarely see the need to broadcast it, their subscription says it louder than any words. The players who are disappointed will typically just leave the game. The vocal minority that you bash here are the few players that care deeply for the game and want it to be a success. We few are worried certain aspects of the game in its current state will drive off players and discourage newcomers. I, for one, am proud to be part of this minority. | |} ---- Have you seen this post yet? It got moved from genchat, but I signed the petition. This is a good post on the subject you're talking about and it needs as much exposure as possible. | |} ---- ---- What the... I dont even... Ok first the game might not be dying, I agree, but servers are. We have no idea who left and why, no one has the number, so your arguments pertaining to who left and who is a minority amount to nothing but pure conjecture. All we know is what we experience, and that is a massive loss of playerbase in our respective servers and factions. What we experience is also a total lack of things to do. You say thats not true, that "There's a lot to do in this game". What you conveniently forget to mention, is that there is no reason to do any of them. You can pontificate until the cows come home, it wont change the fact that people dont do things "just cause". Thats not how it works. There needs to be a carrot, a motivation to engage in an activity. Even single player games give you clear objectives and a trail of candies (collectibles, upgrades, exp, etc). Thats what Wildstar fails to do, specifically because of their broken loot system. The turnover rate, as you call it, has nothing to do with difficulty, and very little with having to form groups. The players I see leaving in my guild, circles and friend list are not fresh 50 complaining about how hard things are, they are fully attuned raiders with nothing to do between unrewarding raids. Instance loot is simply not competitive enough with crafted gear due to the triple RNG system drasticaly reducing the probability of obtaining an upgrade to justify spending hours grinding them. So no, there is not a lot to do in this game. And thats what needs to be fixed. | |} ---- Couldn't agree more... especially mind-blowing that "skipping content" is more attributable to gold, rather than taking it on and either getting hit the wrong way or missing time-limit and therefore missing out on gold. Last I checked this is Wildstar, not the next Metal Gear. :ph34r: ! :blink: Should be more like this: Rather than like this: | |} ---- Relax. You may not have been to many MMORPG launches, but these are how they all start. Nobody keeps their initial influx for long, they have to eventually entice them back once bugs and such are fixed. Happened even in WoW, where people were worried the game's gigantic launch would be fizzled into nothing because of their initial server stability issues. Hell, FFXIV was a complete dud of a game, and SE actually completely redesigned the whole damn thing into a respectable game which is, now, doing very well (despite it making the Wildstar grind look like a Cata dungeon spree). I'd probably still be playing it if I didn't think Wildstar was a better game. Yes, halves of guilds will disappear (more realistically in most cases, people rolled alts and liked them better, but aren't in the same guild, we haven't experienced anywhere near a 60% drop in overall game population). This will happen for months as the game works out issues, attracts new players, and carves out its niche in the world. You don't have to panic, especially about Carbine's money (high CREDD sales already probably assured Carbine and NCSoft that they're going to be just fine as far as funding goes for a long while) or the game's popularity. What you should do is calmly raise these topics (again, this topic's not a bad thing in and of itself) so that the game works out some of the issues that bother us, the currently playing playerbase. It's really not helpful to worry about theoretical players who may leave or may not play, it's more important to say, "We have done the attunement, we understand the Elder Gem cap is meant to slow down raid progression during the bug fix phase and to keep people from buying out the whole Elder Gem vendor and running out of things to work forward to, but it might be better served if Elder Gems were harder to get but had no cap. It would incentivize current players to constantly be working towards something rather than doing their dailies to get their gems, then logging out." If the dedicated player base is happy, the game will do well. Carbine didn't flame out MC Hammer-Bioware style on the initial investment. If you want more people to come play the game or for discontinued gamers to return, it's best to focus on what we, as a bunch of players, like about the game and what we think the game could do without or be set as an optional goal. I've already suggested elsewhere that timers could be removed and special modes added at the doors for premade dungeon groups to enable "harder" versions of the dungeon with a timer, or ground friction turned down, or random lightning strikes targetting players and forcing movement, with their own exclusive rewards and decor or elder gem bonuses would probably be good to keep people playing. But trust me, Carbine doesn't need any more of a fire lit under their asses to work. They've got a hundred different number one priorities from all sides because people have differing game experiences. The best thing you can do if you really want Carbine to listen to your suggestion isn't to add to the "ZOGM teh gamez dyin!!!" chorus, but to give more targeted feedback and suggestions. I may not agree with Rly's OP about how this issue is killing subs, but that doesn't mean I don't respect that he at least presented real targeted criticism, what he thinks could be done to fix it, and what he didn't want sacrificed in the name of fixing it. Those three things are very important. | |} ---- ---- There's not a reason to do anything in any game, really, beyond what you put in front of yourself. Raiding isn't any more meaningful than the attunement that came before it, it's all just working towards an end goal. One of the big differences between people who aren't seeing what you're seeing as the number 1 worst problem in the game and those who do hinges around the breadth of their experience. I don't agree that there isn't enough to do because I quite happily engage in everything the game has to offer, from crafting to group PVE, and enjoy it all. So I'm not noticing a dearth of things on my to-do list. I know that I alt quite a bit as well, so the idea that "a lot of people who I've added to my friends list haven't logged into that character in weeks" doesn't seem to me like a solid idea for judging the player population; anyone whose added any of my characters might not have seen some of them for several weeks, despite that I play almost daily. However, that's not a reason for you to call it the game-killer nor me to call it insignificant, you want a carrot and it doesn't hurt me that you get one. That's the important thing, and I'm not sure why people have to start wailing on sirens to say they want something. Carbine has every reason for wanting to make their dedicated players happy and keep them addicted to the game. In fact, there's a long post on their loot system. If the general discussion threads are anything to go on, Carbine's moving quickly through a lot of issues. Nowadays, what dominates discussion seems to be: -Timers are still a pain in the ass for dungeons -The loot system for raiding and instancing doesn't reward players running dungeons outside attunement (per your post) -PVP has a major loot issue Which aren't even what the major issues were two or three weeks ago. Honestly, I think people need to stop obfuscating their own issues by making them bigger than their own views; your views are important. There's no real criticism against saying, "I don't like how this works, this is why I don't like it, this is what could replace it that would work better, whatever happens this is what shouldn't change because this is what I like about the current system." I just don't like having people's points easily dismissed because of their implied indignation. | |} ---- Erm, kind of hilarious when one considers that in this game, many of the blues are actually better overall than the purples, lol. :ph34r: *facepalm* | |} ---- Funny how you took that literally and didn't really get what I was trying to say. Instant gratification, must have all good gear now. Although your statement IS correct, there are definitely blues that are better than the purples. I have some of those. | |} ---- the opposite of instant gratification isnt "make the game as grindy as Lineage 2" though people who hate "instant gratification" seem to not understand that they are a teeeny minority who loves putting their face against a belt sander for weeks, while most of us would just like a happy medium area where effort feels rewarding without feeling like scaling mount everest with bloody stumps instead of legs and arms. | |} ---- I completely got what you were saying, just thought I'd take a moment to point out the blatant hilarity is all -- funny you couldn't read that between the lines (yet point out the statement is accurate all the same). :ph34r: *facepalm* PS - Very few games are true "instant gratification" (unless one is looking primarily at perhaps Facebook games and/or pay-to-win games)... just because it might not be as challenging as some might wish it to be (which is also a subjective topic), doesn't make it instant gratification. TRUE "instant gratification" would be being able to buy gear straight off of a cash-shop and have epics/heirlooms from the word "go". Just because something might be semi-easy to get, while being enjoyable, doesn't make it a bad thing. There are things in Wildstar that already really easy to get, that most would consider rare... such as "Slugthrowers" or the "Fez", or even the quest reward from Guardians of the Grove without even partaking, just being within the area, standing still or running around harvesting mats... doesn't mean it's "instant gratification". In fact, if we're talking "instant gratification", wouldn't that logic mean one should strike pre-order bonuses? Willing to give back the pre-order hoveboard and any other goodies you got when you pre-ordered? Not to mention boom boxes, and other goodies/rewards from signing into beta and/or being around for a specific-length of time in beta? Those are all items given just for paying for the game, and/or testing the game, not actually progressively playing it. (Kind of ironic how the semantic points turn around yet again... people used to complain about boom box content somewhat included, and everybody screamed that they were free and they had no right to complain... even though people pointed out they were compensation for the name-reservation snafu to those that got their name instantly/early and on the first try, beta server-outages, etc... now that gets to turn around and actually hold up as "free goodie", aka: "instant gratification", fancy that.) | |} ---- How long does it take to get one pattern? My guild is still in the process of attuning, so no raid content for us yet. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Nope... we as players shouldn't... but it speaks more about the content than the player. The Secret World had the same problem... dungeons were pain-staking, some tedious, some straight up mind-blowing and way too prone to wipe, etc... yet, at end-game, players had to go through each dungeon at the current difficulty level... once all of them were done, the next difficulty would unlock, and then one would have to run all prior same dungeons over again the same exact way, but even harder and more difficult. Was one of the handful of things in TSO I seriously couldn't stand, and one of the reasons I can hardly bring myself to play the game anymore. If everything was sunshine, daisies, and enjoyable 100% across the board, for everybody, completely equally... it'd make sense to run it over again... but to take something that frustrated a player, made them want to rip their hair out, and say "THANK GOODNESS" when it was finally over... to subject them to HAVING to do it again, only harder, more frustrating, more obnoxious, more punishing... definitely crosses the line of gaming made to be enjoyably challenging, straight into gaming made to punish the player and act more like a "gaming boot camp". Almost sad/bothering when one can almost hear/sense the game screaming at them, "GIVE ME ONE MORE YOU SMELLY MAGGOT, WE'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO FINISHED YET, DON'T YOU DARE QUIT ON ME NOW CUPCAKE OR I WILL MAKE YOU REGRET IT!" :ph34r: | |} ---- The end is near | |} ---- ---- Im gonna have to say while i don't agree to some of the development choices carbine has made, this statement is completely unfair.. trying to do rabbit punches at the developers just ruins your opinion and stains your reputation. Dont let a productive idea get ruined by emotional rhetoric. You can't expect them to revamp the game in just a few short weeks because not even blizzard would go through that type of trouble. And yes blizz takes forever to fix their mess ups... took them several months to fix the healing blunder back in cata...and admit it was a bad idea in the first place. Carbine with wildstar went out on a limb to test a potential market..it was a very high risk thing for them to do. Now that their starting to see how the community is responding towards that risk, Over time they will make the necessary adjustments to the game whether for good or for ill... | |} ---- Ill agree the punishing factor casts a bit of shadow on its finer elements.. i doubt it will last forever though | |} ---- ---- Don't let the door hit you on the way out. If gating in W* is too much for you, try to steer clear of games with real gates. Best Naz | |} ---- Its not to much for us ... BUT when people are leaving duo to "OVER GATING" and we cant recruit people thats the problem and carbine dont care about imbalanced pop issues | |} ---- ---- And here is the usual Blizzard employee post. I was waiting fot it. On edit: it habitually happen right before mods close the thread. | |} ---- ---- Sounds like a personal problem, or weak players IMO. Gating in FFXI took half a year plus for some of their end game zones, and was much worse than W* abd WoW's gates combined. Sorry you are doing poorly recruiting, maybe it's time to call it quits and join an established raiding guild? I tend to play pretty casually now... I never have a problem having fun / finding stuff to do outside of raids. Between Adventures / dungeons with some friends, crafting, messing with my plot for hours on end, running challenges, collecting lore... There is a surprising amount to do given the game is just almost 2 months old.. Much more to do than there was in SWTOR when it hit 6 months, let alone 2. The difficulty for that content isn't overwhelming, and the reality is the bads and casuals will never have to worry about the truly epic endgame dynamics... because reasons. It's not for everyone, that's cool, if you don't enjoy it go do something you do enjoy... but even for casuals there's a decent amount of content. | |} ---- ---- ---- To be fair, W* is making more than Lineage II right now... I think we'll be ok, but thanks for your concern. Best, Naz | |} ---- ---- swing and a miss. | |} ---- ---- ---- Some people have jobs and real lives. Casual doesn't mean you're not good or can't raid with the best of them, just that it's going to take you longer to get there. Well, good luck to you all trying to fill in the gaps in your hardcore rosters when there's no one left to fill them with, because the people who could have made awesome raiders quit on their way there, because of everything mentioned in the OP. Seriously, look at the bigger picture. The problem is they probably don't have much time if the current trends keep up, it all depends on what NCSoft deems as an acceptable profit margin. WildStar needs good numbers NOW. If they want this game to be a success it should have already been, the current situation needs to be fixed or at least patched up while they work on more permanent things. It is very apparent to anyone playing that the game is leaking subscriptions like a flood. One way to attempt to fix this is to tone down all the needless gating. It is not difficult content, it's just hassles people don't feel like bothering with. Which is a problem. People aren't bothering, they're just leaving. You cannot compare WoW to this situation, they had no serious competition for years and were built on already established games. Carbine does not have that luxury, nor do they have a publisher that has their back. And WoW always had and still has a slew of its own problems...it has actually gotten to the point where people were so fed up of it they were jumping aboard WildStar like a welcome escape they've been looking for. Except instead of staying and making this their MMO, so many are leaving because the stupid walls are preventing them from having fun. And Carbine needs to stop the flood if WildStar has any chance of making it. I've been reading through this, some seriously scary shit: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/NCsoft-Reviews-E23242.htm | |} ---- Well it would be a foolish mistake of Carbine to not listen to the community. Challenging content is good, huge brick walls are not. I personally think that the challenging part/wall is kind of very early in the endgame. So early that many people can't even complete dungeons and decide to actually stop playing. The challenging players and high level of difficulty should be in the raiding content and not before if you ask me. They could even make the first raid kind of easy, and then add crazy difficult stuff later. Just to get people hooked. | |} ---- ---- ---- you are so funny. so eager to see the game fail to prove a point keep that chin up while you go down with the ship :D | |} ---- Why are you crying? The game was advertised as is. Hardcore. That doesn't just mean skill. Time investment is part of being hardcore and if you can't invest that time and skill, why did you even start playing Wildstar? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I have a job and a real life, as does my wife and she also plays..These days my life is the very definition of casual when it comes to my gaming. But. Your whole diatribe is for the support of nerfing the content for the casual playerbase right? and thus moving away from the main spirit of the game. (a challenging, difficult but rewarding experience) I absolutley do not want that! How can you get any satisfaction out of a diluted experience? I as a casual player do not want this. I would rather the game have lower numbers and a appreciative audience than the god awful beast that is World of Warcraft with their self entilted, press a button for loot playerbase. Basically, if you can't hit "like" on your Facebook accounts and receive raid level loot then its obviously too difficult right? | |} ---- Well obviously that isn't the case. It's more like.. Casuals can play Wildstar too but they don't get to complain about it being hardcore when it was advertised at a hardcore game. It's one of those "you knew what you were getting yourself into" deals. | |} ---- I'm a casual. I'm up for challenges and completing difficult content. Doesn't make me a bad player and doesn't deter me from playing this game and aiming to complete my attunement and try my hand at raiding. Again..lemme reiterate cause you hardcores need things repeating for some reason. We're not asking gear to be handed to us. We just want things to go more smoothly. No more bugs. No more timers. Make us work for it and actually worry about how to play and how to take down bosses instead of worrying about little Susie trying to stick her hand in a working blender. Cause Hardcore does not mean real life comes second. | |} ---- Diatribe? Remain civil, please. Let's get one thing straight, I am NOT casual, have been raiding hardcore for many many years now. I am perfectly capable of completing everything in this game, problem is, will there be people to do it with, or will it be a constant struggle to keep the rosters functional? No where am I trying to make an attempt to even complain about game difficulty. But I am seeing the issues the OP so eloquently stated. Difficult mechanics are a game difficulty that require skill to overcome, some arbitrary timers, caps and walls are alas, not. I do not want the content nerfed, and neither does OP or any of the people that are arguing for it, for that matter. People are quitting en-masse, which is evident to anyone playing and that is going to affect everyone, sooner rather than later. And that's pretty much it, just trying to look for solutions to prevent that from happening and to have a game to play. So please, relax, and try to understand that in order for WildStar to survive, Carbine needs to be presenting some serious numbers to NCSoft each quarter. Perhaps you would rather the game have lower numbers, but NCSoft tend to just shut that kind of projects down. | |} ---- Thank you for putting this so eloquently. | |} ---- ----